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Water Flooded the Dragon King Temple? (1)
T/N: Translated by Jen on Broken Jinsei! Please do not repost my translations! All translations outside of Broken Jinsei are stolen and reposted without permission!
“Wangye is criticizing me for possibly ‘leaning over the garden wall like the red apricot tree’?” Jing Wan looked to him, smiling yet not smiling.
The others all got startled by Jing Wan’s words. Even Gong mama all couldn’t help but deepen her breathing a little. As for Yu Zhong Qing and Sir Shi who stood relatively farther away, originally due to etiquette, all won’t directly look at Jing Wan, but at this time, all couldn’t help but look over. These words truly were too———brazen. Alright, this was already not just brazen.
Each and every one all couldn’t help but look towards Li Hong Yuan. What the others thought wasn’t important, only his thoughts were the most important.
Compared to the others, Li Hong Yuan’s expression was instead much more composed. Wan Wan’s reverse dragon scale that can’t be touch was only just one, she hoped for her own husband to be loyal and devoted, and she herself will also be absolutely loyal. He seemingly remembered, in his past life, he forced her to become unfaithful, and till her death, what kind of attitude she held. And he further remembered his heart-wrenching pain at the time. His breathing stopped for a moment, but he controlled it very well, so no one noticed. Because he understood her, that’s why this really wasn’t a problem.
Just, without waiting for Li Hong Yuan to reply, Jing Wan just continued, “Men having an affair, that isn’t called an affair, that’s called being romantic, expected and natural. And getting involved with some people that one shouldn’t be involved with, it’ll also just be said as ‘poetic and passionate’, viewed as a beautiful story. Women having an affair, that’s just being morally loose and wanton. And if something happens, the first one to get executed is precisely her. Even if a woman really is wanton, under any circumstance, at most it’s just half-wrong. Men being unable to look after their own waistband, could they even be forcibly stripped by women? The most innocent is still those women that were forced. Clearly suffering the greatest harm, yet never mind no one pitying or sympathizing, and no one to uphold justice for them, they even need to shoulder all kinds of unbearable names on their head, unable to obtain peace even in death.
Speaking of which, men are even painstakingly given birth to by women. Their old man having done something lowly, yet never mind not helping the mother, they even urge their mother to be magnanimous, needing to have the capacity to tolerate people. Is this also considered filial piety? Also, those so called ‘Three Obediences and Four Virtues[1]‘, as the saying goes ‘if the husband dies, obey the son’. It’s fine when there’s no conflict, but what about when there is conflict? Is filial piety first? Or obeying the son first?
(T/N: The line ‘if the husband dies, obey the son’ comes from the ‘Three Obediences and Four Virtues’, the last part about the conflict is sort of not exactly interpreted in that way, it’s more so, if there’s conflict between the sons, you listen to the eldest, hence seniority takes precedence. Even so, with Jing Wan’s interpretation, it’s not necessarily a good argument either, because how many mothers in cnovel actually listen to their sons.)
Men are expected by all rights to have many wives and concubines, holding left and right, yet require women to be loyal and devoted, faithful unto death. Women overstepping the bounds of what’s proper, people will just say the man’s head has turned green. But in my eyes, in this world, among a thousand women, at least nine hundred and ninety nine are lush green over the head.
All similarly people, yet how come the disparity is just this big? But it can’t be helped, after all, who let everything all be male authority above all else, so men are just expected by all rights to set rules for women. Once women go against men’s desire, then that is just wrong.”
Li Hong Yuan slightly narrowed his eyes, looking to Jing Wan. This resentment was seemingly a bit heavy. He opened his mouth with a shallow smile, “Wan Wan, you can’t have everyone all beaten to death with one bamboo pole. Female Commandments, and Female Principles, these books were all written by women.[2]”
“I won’t deny their talent and learning, but writing out these things is practically just water entering the brains. Never mind that they themselves believe this and want to use this to conduct themselves, but to even write it out harm others, making all women required to be like them. This is one disaster just lasting for several hundreds to thousands of years. How many women, because of them, suffered hardship, and met with censure. And when finally reaching the netherworld below, don’t know how many grieving spirits want to tear them apart. Having these books, all you men must be even more pleased, right? Look, women themselves all think this too, so no matter what you all do, it’s even more natural and to be expected, completely unbridled.”
Aside from Li Hong Yuan, everyone all had their heads buried low, even wanting to have their ears stuffed so that they can no longer hear.
Seeing that the resentful air on Jing Wan was all about to overflow, Li Hong Yuan hurriedly went forward, having her embraced into his arms, “Don’t get angry, don’t get angry………………”
For people, perhaps because one cares, thus one would not mind at all. If he and Jing Wan were not acquainted, or perhaps should say, acquainted but don’t have those feelings, he probably would also feel she was being blasphemous, arrogant, and acting recklessly. But listening to it now, he just feels her words were quite right. Of course, these things actually have nothing to do with him. He won’t require Wan Wan to do this, and he himself also won’t indirectly do something that require her to ‘abide by the rules’.
Jing Wan this while also knew that she was being a bit extreme. After leaning in Li Hong Yuan’s embrace for a while, she finally calmed down and looked to Li Hong Yuan, “You’re even quite happy?”
“I am quite happy, because Wan Wan absolutely trusts me, thus would say these things, so shouldn’t I be happy?”
Hearing this, Jing Wan was also quite happy, however, “Isn’t wangye grabbing onto the wrong point?”
TN: All translations outside of Broken Jinsei are stolen and reposted without permission!
“How can that be, my main focus is very proper. As for the main focus Wan Wan believes in……..” Li Hong Yuan cupped her face, letting her directly look at him, “If Wan Wan feels there’s problems here, then in the future, just go change it, change it according to your wishes. I will be your powerful backing.”
Jing Wan has always said that his skill in love talk was already maxed out, but Jing Wan felt, this was the most moving thing she’s heard so far, “Thank you, thank you, Ah Yuan.”
If there is such an opportunity, Jing Wan naturally won’t let go of. Of course, she was very clear, under this current societal background, wanting to change a lot, letting women have equal status as men, that was practically just a pipe dream. Even if when time comes, this man is already the Emperor, and she the mother of the world, to want to achieve this isn’t impossible, but going too far certainly will meet with many people’s opposition. Once isolated without help, no matter how valiant of an Emperor would all……………
That’s why, she just wants to slightly raise women’s status a little. When they are being harmed, it won’t be as bad as still needing to bear even deeper pain. When the di wife gets suppressed by the concubine at home to the point of not having space to survive, it won’t be as bad as not having even the ability for one last struggle. Especially for the officials, must let them know, if favoring the concubine and neglecting the wife, then there will absolutely be no ‘bright future prospect’.
In any kind of civilization, changing it, all isn’t something accomplished overnight. Qi Yuan right now was still far from having the opportunity to achieve equality of gender, can only leave it to the later generations. Eventually one day, there will be an opportunity like in her past life. Perhaps it was the timing maturing and just a sudden change, or perhaps gradually reaching step by step naturally.
What she can do wasn’t much, but still need to do a bit of something, starting from her. At least let people have such an awareness, and perhaps there will be people accepting her relay baton, continuing to walk forward.
In this moment, Jing Wan really felt she was incomparably fortunate. If switched with another man, probably her having the slightest thought in this direction will immediately get thoroughly extinguished.
As for the method of exterminating……….all don’t even need to think to know.
“This matter isn’t pressing right now, you can slowly think about it. There’s still plenty of time. ———-Let’s go, didn’t you want to go down?” Li Hong Yuan pulled along Jing Wan’s hand, preparing to descend the Immortal Gazing Lookout.
Jing Wan’s brows were curved, her mood very good, “En.” She freely allowed him to hold her hand, and even when encountering others midway, she also didn’t struggle free. Between the two of them, it appeared very intimate.
[1] I’ll just link to the page explaining it again
[2] ‘Female Commandments’, also known as ‘Lessons for Women’, was written by the Han Dynasty female scholar Ban Zhao, the first ever female historian of imperial times, and ‘Female Principles’ was written by Emperor Taizong of Tang’s Empress, Zhangsun-shi. The ‘Female Principles’ was a collection of deeds done by virtuous women, I believe Empress Zhangsun at the time wanted to compile a record of praiseworthy virtuous women. The Lessons for Women is actually mostly translated, only the last part regarding relations between the younger brother-in-laws and sister-in-laws is missing. I also recommend reading the introduction section by Andrea.
These texts are really more so for the upper class noble daughters, and daughters of officials, since majority of commoners, especially women, were illiterate and uneducated, so they wouldn’t have studied these. This is also why for upper class families the main wife needs to be someone with an appropriate background, purely due to the huge disparity in education, for instance, you can’t except someone who can’t even count to be in charge of managing the money of a big household.
T/N: Although I agree with most of Jing Wan’s arguments, there is one point she omits, and that is powerful women forcing men to become their lover against their will, and there are cases in history, not to mention how it’s accepted as normal for women in power to raise male lovers. This is a hierarchical society after all. It’s in the same light of how men can also be raped, which Jing Wan sort of denies in her arguments. It’s kinda why her arguments are more so for rhetoric sake. They aren’t wrong per se, but not fully right either.
Another point is, majority of Confucian text, well specifically the Analects, don’t really mention women at all or state what women should do specifically. The Analects mostly heavily emphasizes on what men should do and the relationship between father and son, as well as a lot of political advice and how to govern the state, because Confucius’s goal was to try and serve in politics, so he focused a lot on the ways of ruling and governing. A lot of his ideas were more so ‘policy proposals’ to the various rulers that he was trying to serve, although he wasn’t very successful in his political career. The ones that ended up spreading his teachings were mostly his disciples who had a bigger influence in politics, particularly Mencius, and this other guy I forgot the name of, which they both founded their own school of thought. A lot of Confucius’s views are reflective of the circumstances of the country at the time, specifically he lived during the Warring States Period, where there was a fuk ton of wars, so you can kinda see how he wanted to focus on harmony and family, because he believed that was the key to a stable government.
The so called rules for women that are often mentioned are actually written and set by other women, specifically Ban Zhao’s ‘Lesson for Women’ had the heaviest influence. In a way, because Ban Zhao was so accomplished in life, from becoming the first female historian in ancient china to being the taoist sex instructor for the imperial family, including having many literary works, although many are lost now, and even being the teacher to Empress Deng Sui and working in politics, many ancient women looked up to her as a role model and raised their daughters according to her teachings, hence why her ‘Lessons for Women’ was so prevalent. I do want to say that if you want to comment on it, at least read it first instead of going off on assumptions, it’s very short. I’ll link it again here.
Although Jing Wan say these women have water in their brains for writing these texts, modern scholars have referred to Ban Zhao as a Confucian feminist. Personally, I feel like you should form your own opinion on this matter, as the text, ‘Lesson for Women’, have many different interpretations. My point with a lot of TNs is really just to give historical context to the novel, as I feel like some people take historical fictions way too literally, like some people are definitely going to take Jing Wan’s arguments at face value without understanding the full context. Not to mention historical fiction often dramatizes or exaggerates things for sake of the plot, so it’s always good to use the actual historical sources for context.
My view is, Ban Zhao’s views were a view of the time, well a particular set of philosphy that reflected the standards and values of the time, for instance cultural emphasis on humility and avoiding conflict. In a way, she just wrote what worked for her and attributed to her success in life, sort of like a book of advice for women. It was originally meant for her daughters, but because Ban Zhao held political power, having strong ties to the imperial family, and served in the imperial court as the Empress Dowager’s advisor, her work ended up circulating. Royalties and people in power setting trends is a very normal things. And if there are people who are even bad at interpreting fictional stories, then there were definitely people who inevitably will end up misinterpreting her words, not to mention people who deliberate twist the meaning for their own motives. This kind of thing happens all the time with religious text so it’s not really that surprising. Reading comprehension isn’t exactly everyone’s strong suit.
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Thanks for chap
Umm i kinda agree with tl, those who say she’s being feminist are wrong while her points do seem valid but the problem is she never takes into account the opposite happening, like her own aunt-in-law who’s a living embodiment of how women can be wrong too. Also she seems to forget country ruining demonesses throughout history.
And yeah that legal wife part is unsettling like, yea those of mistresses dominating is bad but also the reverse is equally bad(cuz here an uncared concubine is literally a slave without physical chains). Like su ting is an example. I feel she is mainly opinionated against cheating men( from her dad from her past life) and the concept of concubines and tongfangs(becuz of seeing her own mom suffering and how bcuz of being surrounded by good men she kept seeing the bad side of concubines trying to seduce them, never the opposite)
Also her mom is a prime example of her thoughts are not perfect. Although her mom suffers a lot in her mind there’s never the feeling of it being bad at all(that suffering in a relationship is normal) such mentality is actually more common in the world in both genders than people think.
Jingwan is very vocal about gender equality, and women rights, but is very disdainful of concubines. Just as much as legal wives, concubines are also women who are suffering injustices, even more, since they have no status and are just basically ‘playthings’. Some of them might voluntarily have chosen that position, but they were also pushed to that by circumstances, especially for those of low birth and only wants to have a better life, not to mention those raped or coerced by men in power.
I kinda feel, it’s a little…unsettling.
More than women rights, she’s more legal wife rights.
That’s why I said, her views are just as flawed, but she was never meant to be some moral compass, like how she constantly says, she’s not a saint. She’s just a person that’s shaped by her experiences and her views reflect that especially given the position she’s in. It’s like how she mentioned before because she was born into the upper class, she never felt the need to change the class system because she wasn’t born into the lowest rung of society. I mean in theory most characters in cnovels are slaveowners, but nobody ever bats an eye at this, let alone consider it unsettling.
When it comes to husbands treatment of their wives and the whole concubine business, it has always being Jing Wan’s reverse scale in my opinion. I don’t think this is the first time she is going off on issues like it. I think her previous life and family situation are the major reasons why she gets intense with the topic.
Thanks for the link to the translated “Lessons for Women”. Found it very helpful. I also had no idea that those rules for women were written by women. I see just how much we can be a product of our environment and timeline.
Hello Jen thank you very much for posting the source material for lessons for women it was a very interesting read especially with the analysis questions posted by the university professor.
It makes me wonder since a lot of the principles written and it can still be seen in modern society especially the notion of respect and continuation of the ancestry wether a lot of the authors who use these principles understood the original text and some of the implicit condemnations of men’s behavior such as beating their wives, not encouraging theirs daughters to be educated, Lust fullness or not making something out of themselves. It also appears that the commend for Womanly Work is often reduced to embroidery while in the original text it seems to encompass all of the domestic charges married woman should undertake.
Or maybe I though too much and saw the text in my modern feminist lenses especially since I read a lot about how the European medieval society (Or ancien Greece btw) had a much more progressive female condition then we might think
I’m not exactly sure how to answer this, but I suppose in a way just as how a lot of modern scholars have various interpretations of the text, just like how religious text is often interpreted in various ways, you can’t exactly rule out the possibility that someone may have misinterpreted the text or choose to simplify the notion of womanly work down to embroidery because of easy comprehension. Just like how many cnovel readers do you think have actually ever read ‘Lesson for Women’ or ‘The Analects’, instead of only comprehending things about Confucianism secondhand through the plot of a historical fiction.
I understand that Confucius did not write the main writings that oppress Asian women, but he had a very low opinion of women.
From the point of view that women wrote these “rules”, it reminds me of the testimonies of ablation victims, when they talk about their experiences, you realize that women they harm other women. These opinions and practices are perpetuated by other womans.
My point about ‘reading comprehension isn’t exactly everyone’s strong suit’ still stands. You do realize that I’m not arguing whether or not these practices were good or bad, or the influence it has had on women, right? Because regardless of your views on the matter, ‘Lesson for Women’ was written by a female scholar, that is a fact. Ban Zhao was very accomplished and influential in politics, that is also a fact. I’m just providing factual context, just as I’ve clearly stated, ‘people should form their own opinion on this matter’, because it is also true that modern scholars, you know people who have spent their lives studying this shit in universities, have debated whether Ban Zhao was a Confucian feminist, but I’m not qualified to say whether they are right or wrong. My knowledge on the subject is still very surface level in comparison, but hey at least I’ve actually read the source material in its entirety.
Even if women of status can have male lovers, those that are high in status and power are only in the very few minority. Even then most women aren’t allow real powers back then so even if it is a matter of powers, most women are still held back from having them in the first place that allow them to act in wanton. Meanwhile, a common farmer can still sleep around or have multiple wives. The discrepancy between how 2 gender is still there. Women can only act how they want if they are lucky enough to be born into power that allow them to act in wanton, but the most common man can take multiple wives and be as disloyal as they want while their wives were forced to devote to them or be treated as slut. The unfairness is still disgusting. Can’t blame Jin Wang for her resentment after all…most women understand that kind of bitterness and sexism
To be honest sometimes it’s hard to consider gender equality in a time when there isn’t even human equality. After all, it’s better to be born a noblewoman with restrictions than a slave.